Re: There will always be "Fifth Elements".

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Posted ByArbiter on April 26, 2002 at 20:47:38:

In Reply to: Re: The Fifth Element. There will always be arguments. posted byPaul on April 26, 2002 at 15:50:00:

: Thank you Arbiter. I shall start again.

I likewise thank you and apologize on behalf of my colleagues at the World RPS Society for reacting with, perhaps, a trifle too much zeal. Keep in mind, these gentlemen have been fighting for a long time to keep dynamite out of RPS. Note that I said "out of RPS" not "out of The Five Elements". I do not want to restart this thread through clumsiness at this point.

I must admit that I typically come down on the side of the purists in these discussions. In my youth, I was frequently frustrated when, while trying to make a simple decision with RPS, my opponent threw dynamite.

However, part of the strength and beauty of RPS, arising from its very simplicity, is that it is an excellent platform to build on. The symmetry of RPS is the basis for balance in all kinds of games.

You used "Baldur's Gate" as an example. Let me hearken back farther in PC gaming history to "Dune 2" (most emphatically NOT Dune 2000). Three houses whose weapons were particularly suited to fighting one of the others. More recently Starcraft tried to do something similar. For the card game fans among us, take a look at "Manitou", which employs a five element variation on RPS, but the RPS symmetry is still hiding inside. Even "Magic: The Gathering" has a symmetry that can be traced back to RPS. Of course, as these games add all of their additional rules and components, the symmetry and balance can change, but the idea of RPS is still there.

By choosing to study RPS, we study gaming at its most fundamental level. All the key elements of gaming are present: physical skills, strategy, knowing one's opponent, and so forth, but stripped of their trappings and served raw.

The Theoretical Throws Bureau, may-they-ever-be-funded, works hard to make sure we don't lose sight of that, but there is an important distinction between changing RPS and building new games on the foundation of RPS.

So, in the spirit of innovation, I have a suggestion for you. The addition of dynamite necessarily creates some confusion in the original RPS triad. Have you considered reinventing all five throws for your game? Keep the symmetry and rules you have already developed, but rename all five throws so that they are more intuitive.

Just a thought.

Arbiter
Zone Captain, Media Brigade
"Scissors for scissors' sake."

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Comments:: : Thank you Arbiter. I shall start again. : I likewise thank you and apologize on behalf of my colleagues at the World RPS Society for reacting with, perhaps, a trifle too much zeal. Keep in mind, these gentlemen have been fighting for a long time to keep dynamite out of RPS. Note that I said "out of RPS" not "out of The Five Elements". I do not want to restart this thread through clumsiness at this point. : I must admit that I typically come down on the side of the purists in these discussions. In my youth, I was frequently frustrated when, while trying to make a simple decision with RPS, my opponent threw dynamite. : However, part of the strength and beauty of RPS, arising from its very simplicity, is that it is an excellent platform to build on. The symmetry of RPS is the basis for balance in all kinds of games. : You used "Baldur's Gate" as an example. Let me hearken back farther in PC gaming history to "Dune 2" (most emphatically NOT Dune 2000). Three houses whose weapons were particularly suited to fighting one of the others. More recently Starcraft tried to do something similar. For the card game fans among us, take a look at "Manitou", which employs a five element variation on RPS, but the RPS symmetry is still hiding inside. Even "Magic: The Gathering" has a symmetry that can be traced back to RPS. Of course, as these games add all of their additional rules and components, the symmetry and balance can change, but the idea of RPS is still there. : By choosing to study RPS, we study gaming at its most fundamental level. All the key elements of gaming are present: physical skills, strategy, knowing one's opponent, and so forth, but stripped of their trappings and served raw. : The Theoretical Throws Bureau, may-they-ever-be-funded, works hard to make sure we don't lose sight of that, but there is an important distinction between changing RPS and building new games on the foundation of RPS. : So, in the spirit of innovation, I have a suggestion for you. The addition of dynamite necessarily creates some confusion in the original RPS triad. Have you considered reinventing all five throws for your game? Keep the symmetry and rules you have already developed, but rename all five throws so that they are more intuitive. : Just a thought. : Arbiter : Zone Captain, Media Brigade : "Scissors for scissors' sake."

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